Recommend me a local tire place - Nokians

[TSi+WRX]

Hey All,

Looking to put on a set of Nokian Hakka 7s on my LGT this winter - so I'm scouting for recommendations from y'all about local (preferably near-eastside, but this doesn't really matter) wheel/tire places that are Nokian retailers.

No special considerations aside from good work balancing and mounting, of-course.

Thanks!
-Allen

[wast3gate]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

Hey All,

Looking to put on a set of Nokian Hakka 7s on my LGT this winter - so I'm scouting for recommendations from y'all about local (preferably near-eastside, but this doesn't really matter) wheel/tire places that are Nokian retailers.

No special considerations aside from good work balancing and mounting, of-course.

Thanks!
-Allen

I've gotten two sets of Nokians from Northfield Tire -- in Northfield, on Northfield. Odd name, then, eh?

I've been dealing with them for about 15 years, and I've seldom been let down by them. The won't let you bring parts in the door for them to install. Other than that, they're aces.

FWIW, I don't know how much highway driving you do, but the Haka 7s won't stand up well to much of it. Since I drive 40k-50k/year, I opted for the Nokian WRs. Much less aggressive, but a fabulous snow tire all the same. I can get two season out of them -- which amounts to about 50k miles -- and that's huge in my book for a snow tire.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Thank you, sincerely, for your recommendations.

I'm still playing with the Hakka 7 idea - they're very pricey, and in the various European tests last winter, the old Pirelli Winter Carving, also studded, did comparatively very, very well, and are of significantly less cost (at about $100 a tire, less, for my fitment). With what's detailed in the 2009 NAF testing, the Pirelli's strengths and weaknesses actually mesh quite well with my desired traits, so I'm having a hard time playing this.

My car rarely sees highway, and this will be a true "dead of winter" set - from mid/late-December to early/mid-February. For as little highway as my car sees, normally, it's even less likely to see highway duty during those months.

A part of me wants to splurge for "the latest and greatest" - but a part of me also says that $400 ain't chump-change, and that the Pirellis are, quantitatively speaking, more than good enough for the task...which is *already* overkill, I know.

My current winters, a set of Dunlop 3Ds, will likely go through this season and just then wear down to the winter-wear platforms. My plan is to extend their life by rotating them into a fall/spring role, which should then extend the treadlife of both my planned "deep-winter" set as well as my "summer" set.

I know you'll ask the very logical and reasonable question of: "why not a studless ice & snow," and the answer is that I already have the Xi2s on my wife's FXT - I know that it'll more than handle what wintry conditions we typically see around here. I want a bit of overkill, and a bit of fun, since I've never had studded tires before.

[wast3gate]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

^ Thank you, sincerely, for your recommendations.

I'm still playing with the Hakka 7 idea - they're very pricey, and in the various European tests last winter, the old Pirelli Winter Carving, also studded, did comparatively very, very well, and are of significantly less cost (at about $100 a tire, less, for my fitment). With what's detailed in the 2009 NAF testing, the Pirelli's strengths and weaknesses actually mesh quite well with my desired traits, so I'm having a hard time playing this.

My car rarely sees highway, and this will be a true "dead of winter" set - from mid/late-December to early/mid-February. For as little highway as my car sees, normally, it's even less likely to see highway duty during those months.

A part of me wants to splurge for "the latest and greatest" - but a part of me also says that $400 ain't chump-change, and that the Pirellis are, quantitatively speaking, more than good enough for the task...which is *already* overkill, I know.

My current winters, a set of Dunlop 3Ds, will likely go through this season and just then wear down to the winter-wear platforms. My plan is to extend their life by rotating them into a fall/spring role, which should then extend the treadlife of both my planned "deep-winter" set as well as my "summer" set.

I know you'll ask the very logical and reasonable question of: "why not a studless ice & snow," and the answer is that I already have the Xi2s on my wife's FXT - I know that it'll more than handle what wintry conditions we typically see around here. I want a bit of overkill, and a bit of fun, since I've never had studded tires before.

I'm the ultimate skeptic of what's written in whatever guide. Having worked in mass media for a long time... You wouldn't believe who gets paid to write what -- and I don't mean than anyone was paid to write a review one way or another. But the quality of 'journalism' these days has sunk to unimaginable depths.

My only caveat... Just bear in mind that studded tires, on dry pavement, suck -chode -- bigtime. Even in the dead of winter, you'll get long spells of dry pavement. I had Yokohama Guardex's way back in the day that had plastic studs. They were neat tires, and I didn't drive anywhere near as much as I do now, but even the plastic studs in those made for strange behaviour on dry pavement.

Any Nokian that's above the WRs, will be better snow tires than what I have. They actually give them a treadwear rating of 400, which is unheard of for a tire with a Severe Snow Service rating.

I may be one of the only ones, but I don't think the LGT is particular good in the snow. I've gotten stuck a few times, and directional stability is always sketchy -- always has been. It could be that I was accustomed to my '99 GM6 with Blizzaks. Relatively low power & LSD on 195/65-15s made that car the best I've ever driven in snow.

[TSi+WRX]

Originally Posted by wast3gate

I'm the ultimate skeptic of what's written in whatever guide. Having worked in mass media for a long time... You wouldn't believe who gets paid to write what -- and I don't mean than anyone was paid to write a review one way or another. But the quality of 'journalism' these days has sunk to unimaginable depths.

Don't worry, one of my life-changing events was a 10th-grade "Mass Media" class. I kid you not, even of my post-grad courses, I consider that particular high-school class, taught by our wrestling coach, to be among the *best* I've ever had the honor to learn from.

I'm not talking about various "reviews," but rather, recognized independent-source testing, such as that of the NAF and ADAC.

And yes, even then, I do take them with a grain of salt. It's not like there's never, ever been a case of a tire company managing to send in a few ringers.....

My only caveat... Just bear in mind that studded tires, on dry pavement, suck -chode -- bigtime. Even in the dead of winter, you'll get long spells of dry pavement. I had Yokohama Guardex's way back in the day that had plastic studs. They were neat tires, and I didn't drive anywhere near as much as I do now, but even the plastic studs in those made for strange behaviour on dry pavement.

The various overseas tests of premium studded tires are seeing a reversal of this trend - apparently, tire-technology has finally caught up.

Of the last NAF test of premium studded tires, if someone wanted to criticize their clear-weather behavior, they'll also need to criticize the same of the "studless ice & snow" genre - and not just of the run-of-the-mill offerings, there, but rather, of their premium offerings, too.

There is still undeniable compromise in terms of NVH, but in objective measures of performance, even in the clear (i.e. dry or wet), the difference is near-nil.

I completely realize that studded tires, even though they are legal in Ohio from November 1st to April 15th, would be complete overkill for NE-Ohio's typical winters, particularly here in the near-eastern suburbs, out of the true primary snow-belt. Like I said above, while such a purchase will fill what's coming to be a potential concern, now that my 3Ds are wearing down, I could have easily achieved that goal with any of today's premium "studless ice & snow" tires (and the new Blizzak WS70 does tempt). Rather, it's truly the need for me to fill the "fun" void, that's driving me towards this purchase.



-----


In response to your concerns of the LGT's snow handling:

I think that you're right-on in your assessment - those skinnies, combined with more vehicle weigh and the powertrain differences highlights the things going against the LGT, in terms of winter traction: wider contact patch, relative lightweight, as well as good power with a decent torque-curve.

Also, I wonder if your tire choice doesn't have something to do with this part of the equation, too.

The Blizzaks on your '99...what were they, specifically? And just as specifically, did Bridgestone make that distinction, back in '99 - or was it just a general-purpose winter compound?

The WRs you have on your LGT now is decidedly not as winter-capable as a true winter tire: in various recognized independent tests, such as that of the ADAC, while they top the charts in terms of comparisons with other all-seasons, for winter traction, they are definitely on the bottom half of any comparo involving more winter-oriented tires - even when it's just compared against "performance winters." This handicap, alone, would seem to significantly impact the equation.

Certainly, this is not to say that the WR/WRG2 are not good tires. That's not what I mean, at all: and truly, I am amazed that an "all season" tire can be made to not only handle wintry precip. so well, but can also last so long! Instead, that commentary is merely meant to put that portion of this discussion in-perspective.

[wast3gate]

I can't recall which Blizzaks they were. I'm sure they had a model, but that particular model escapes me. I've had mostly good experiences with all the snow tires I've used.

My first experience was with Pirelli Winter 210Ps back in 1996 on my Impreza LX Coupe, then the Guardex's on that same car. Both were great. I had a set of Michelin Arctic Alpins on my '99 VW Golf. I thought they sucked, and they helped to solidify my feeling that Michelins, typically, are overpriced and under performing. This has even held true in my experience with their motorcycle tires.

My '99 GM6 had Blizzaks, and then Dunlop Graspic DS-2s. The Dunlops weren't as good, but they were hella cheaper, and still good enough that I could feel good about the 50% price drop.

Then I got the BL which came with RE92s. They. Were. RRRRRRRRRRRubbish. (that's my best Jeremy Clarkson impression). The main problem with the RE92s, is that they lasted forever. But the first winter I had the car, 2005, I bought the WRs. I've never looked back.

I know what you mean about the WR/WRG2. They're really billed more as all-season tires than full-on snows. I'm sure that has something to do with it. But as I've said, I have to balance snow-performance with highway driving and cost. If I wanted to replace snows every season, I could put some aggressive Hakkas on there.

[puckaveli]

I have gotten my last two sets of Hakka's from Northfield as well and have no complaints with their service. I'm going to be on my 4th season with my Hakka 4's so I've gotten some good years out of them, but I don't put my snows on until the first day I can't see pavement. I ran Hakka 2's previously and Hakka 1's studded and the usefulness of having the studs that winter can be measured in hours, not days. Studs are useless in Ohio, only "good" they had was it's easier to drift and they shoot sparks when you spin the tires.

But I would say if you don't run your snows from Oct-Apr and only when they are needed get the hakka 4's.

[TSi+WRX]

^ That's a very honest assessment, and I do thank you for it.

I know that any studded tire will be complete overkill for my needs - and like you said, their true utility likely will be billed in the range of hours, rather than days. Of the last 5 years (as long as I've had the Legacy), I truly only remember 2 occasions where I would have liked more ice traction, and on one of those, I managed a back-to-back comparo between my 3Ds and Sara's Xi2s (then on her '05 WRX sedan, 4EAT), and I know, from that experience, that all I'll really ever "need" here is a set of good set of "Studless Ice & Snows," at most.

Truthfully, this is mostly one of those shits-and-giggles things , and it is justified, however weakly, in that it satisfies both my desire to have experience with studded tires (I have never had them, myself, before), as well as allows me to extend the life of my 3Ds, by both taking them out-of-rotation for about two months of the year, as well as hopefully thus having them (which are wearing to the half-way point) avoid the occasional true storms we get, in those months, and thus again extend their utility without compromising safety.

---

Originally Posted by wast3gate

I had a set of Michelin Arctic Alpins on my '99 VW Golf. I thought they sucked, and they helped to solidify my feeling that Michelins, typically, are overpriced and under performing. This has even held true in my experience with their motorcycle tires.

That had been my impression of the brand, too, but the Xi2s - which were a true gamble, as, for the season in which I made the purchase, the Bridgestone WS60s were the benchmark, and the main reason I went with the Xi2s was that they offered a claimed 70% longer treadlife specifically as compared to the WS60, a claim which was not disputed by Bridgestone, while early, non-quantitative reports from a few trusted sources hinted that they at least would not fall below-par - seem to stand apart. Certainly, the C&D "Budget Summer Tire" comparo last year reinforced some of the "words on the street" that I've heard, about the PS2.

My '99 GM6 had Blizzaks, and then Dunlop Graspic DS-2s. The Dunlops weren't as good, but they were hella cheaper, and still good enough that I could feel good about the 50% price drop.

I think you had the more aggressive "Studless Ice and Snow" type of Blizzaks, then. It would seem to reason that if they were better than the DS-2s, they'd be of that genre.

Actually, I quoted what you said there because that's the core of my dilemma, now.

The Hakka 7s are the benchmark, but the Pirellis are nearly only 1/2 the price, and objectively, the Pirelli's performance figures are a close match for the Hakka's.

I'm starting to lean toward going that route, and if I follow-through, I only hope I'll be as happy as you were, for your decision!

Then I got the BL which came with RE92s. They. Were. RRRRRRRRRRRubbish. (that's my best Jeremy Clarkson impression). The main problem with the RE92s, is that they lasted forever. But the first winter I had the car, 2005, I bought the WRs. I've never looked back.

You know, I think this goes to show how little both my wife and I demand of our cars.

Neither of us - me on the LGT, her on the WRX - thought that there really was much of any problems with the bunny-killing RE92s. I think it's because we back-off so much, when the slippery stuff starts coming down.... I can still remember calling Sara, the first winter we had with the WRX, to make sure she was OK during a big snowstorm - she said that it was the best car she'd ever driven, under such conditions, and she'd had the RE92s on, then. Certainly, I felt the same way, when that infamous '05 Mother's Day Snowstorm dumped on us as we were making our way to my in-law's place.

I know what you mean about the WR/WRG2. They're really billed more as all-season tires than full-on snows. I'm sure that has something to do with it. But as I've said, I have to balance snow-performance with highway driving and cost. If I wanted to replace snows every season, I could put some aggressive Hakkas on there.

^ I really think that for guys like you, the WR/WRG2s are one of the best possible choices.

I think that if I were forced to go with only one set of tires, I'd definitely pay the premium for the WR/WRG2.

Thanks again, puckaveli and wast3gate. I've always counted on LERSOC to give me the hard-truth of what I sought advice about - be it good, bad, or plain ugly!

[Brat4by4]

Studded tires are fun. I also have them for the its-for-fun factor. Have them on my 4x4 wagon and the turbo Legacy. Neither car "needs" them.

I know you like to roll around with your windows cracked... wait until you hear the studs. It will sound like its raining on dry pavement. It turns some heads on occasion, lol. I don't think you will have this problem, but having studs on makes me take it easy. I don't want to tear up the studs or the tires, so I definitely won't fall into the "I have AWD therefore it must grip like a God" right before the wreck category.

[TSi+WRX]

Originally Posted by Brat4by4

I know you like to roll around with your windows cracked... wait until you hear the studs. It will sound like its raining on dry pavement. It turns some heads on occasion, lol.

When I first moved to NE-Ohio, I was always like "WTF was that?!!!"

Having grown up in Baltimore and Atlanta...well, you get the idea.

I don't think you will have this problem, but having studs on makes me take it easy. I don't want to tear up the studs or the tires, so I definitely won't fall into the "I have AWD therefore it must grip like a God" right before the wreck category.

I'll admit to having had one, each, of those moments with the 3Ds and the Xi2s. Both were in completely isolated situations (which was what led me to probe the envelope), but still, I'd have been very, very embarrassed to have needed a tow.

The fact that Click-and-Clack has gone off on the "Subris" thing has made me extra cautious, and yes, while I also admit that I will definitely be scouting a deserted area to give these tires the good try at some point or another , I also will say that my use on them will likely be *very* conservative as well.